PSS in conversation with Doctor Katie

On this week’s episode of PSS in Conversation With, we are joined by Dr Katie — a chartered psychologist with 20+ years’ experience across psychology, education and wellness. She shares how a severe hyperemesis pregnancy became a pivotal turning point, shaping her move into holistic practice focused on generational healing. We discuss: the sensory overload of HG for highly sensitive and neurodivergent people; anxiety, hypervigilance and PTSD-type symptoms (including thoughts of termination); the role of hormones across pregnancy and perimenopause; and what compassionate, practical support looks like — from safe therapeutic spaces to peer support and specialist HG counselling. Dr Katie reflects on hospital admissions, medication decisions, isolation, and what actually helps families and clinicians respond better.

Content note: mentions suicidal thoughts and termination.

If you need support: Pregnancy Sickness Support offers a helpline, peer support and HG-informed counselling.

Visit www.pregnancysicknesssupport.org.uk 

Transcript

Speaker: 0:00

hello and welcome to PS in And today we're joined by Doctor Katie, um, a chartered doctor of psychology with a background spanning over twenty years in the domain of professional psychology, education and wellness. Welcome, doctor. Katie. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. I got that little bio off your website because I was going to read out some of your qualifications, but then I thought I might take the whole podcast, so I thought I wouldn't. Yeah. We don't need to do that. So tell us a bit about what you do and how you ended up doing it. So I would call myself now a My background has always been in and I've always been interested And lots of people asked me why I didn't go down the clinical psychology route. And it was because if I'm being honest, I didn't want to work in. I did want to do placements in old people's homes and deal with Alzheimer's. My kind of passion has always generational healing basically. So the impact that we can have on breaking generational patterns of trauma and things like that. So I went into educational lovely ambitions of specialising psycho educational psychologist. Um, then I had my first I had a bit of a breakdown with hyperemesis, and I just realised go back to because the system So I kind of went my own way and trained and learned in all sorts of holistic techniques, which I've combined with my, my doctorate, basically my psychology background, which is what I do now, which is helping, women and children heal generational patterns. I do it in various ways. I do it through clinical I do it through Jungian sandplay therapy, I do it through coaching, and I've still got my toes in the water with the educational psychology. I still do locum work just to the system is. Really. So, wow, there's a lot in there. But yeah, I can hear that. It's such an interesting Where you start off in your actually think you're going, um, somewhere and you think, yeah, And it turns out to be entirely And so interesting that your hyperemesis pregnancy experience really shaped the route that you took, and changed your perspective on on what was important, what you wanted to do. And I think parenthood generally does shift your priorities, doesn't it? But I think that hyperemesis has a different has a it lands differently. So are you happy to talk about a hyperemesis experience and kind Yes, absolutely. I think to be honest with you, career, in everything. Because, I mean, I should do But my feeling is that, um, there is a link with anxiety there, and I think I was, I was it was a very much wanted pregnancy. Um, I was very happy to be It was planned. I'd just got married. but as soon as we got to about six or seven weeks, the sickness was just horrendous and unbearable. And I ended up in hospital lots and that made me I was I was sick, you know, if I was trying to do a food shop, I was sick in the supermarkets and things, and people just thought, probably thought I was just drunk or something. It was horrible. And I felt like telling because I've got hyperemesis. And so I developed this phobia the anxiety got really, really And, it got to the point I I couldn't even, open my car door to meet colleagues from work. So I wasn't working. I was too poorly to work. And when it got to about between weeks, I, I really explored, not what I wanted to do at all. And it was a very much wanted I did ring up some private who said that they would come friends who rang up the clinic good state of mind that, you through with this because it and luckily I just I carried on it was the hardest nine months and it was like dying a death. Really? That's the only way I can It was so lonely. I got so depressed. People didn't understand. And even though, Kate Middleton, the Princess of Wales, as she is now, she'd been in the news, so there was a little bit of understanding about it, but it was still, you know, those cliches of eating ginger biscuit of. Oh, you know you're not dying. You you know you haven't got You know, it was all very People didn't understand, depressing it was. And so I had my daughter and I point, I ended up I ended up so diazepam during my pregnancy. And even as a psychologist, I to do this, but it was the only have stopped me terminating the that I later regret. You know, I did contemplate some really dark sort thought suicide and things because I just felt so hopeless. And so I did take the diazepam. But then when my daughter was withdrawal from that. but I was just so elated that She was. Well, she was a healthy baby. And I was just so happy to be anymore and not feeling the It just all went as soon as she so contented being a mum. And I just thought, I'm not going back to the life that I had before. And I really wanted to hyperemesis with me and I wanted aspect to that. I wanted to understand how it links with anxiety, and I wanted to understand, how that might impact my relationship with my daughter and her needs growing up. And so that led me on this trajectory of of the holistic world, really. And, yeah, generational healing, which sounds very woo woo, but actually it's all science backed. You know, if you look at the who's, trained in trauma, intergenerational trauma, and I Absolutely. Well, it sounds like you've had difficult hyperemesis journey. There isn't such a thing as a good hyperemesis journey, I don't think. But really such a massive impact Yeah. Which is so often minimised. Not recognised. you know, and those kind of dismissive comments that you mentioned about. Just just have a ginger biscuit. Yeah. There is no other context where struggling so much with your faced with that kind of comment. Just don't think there's any other situation where that would happen. It's it's heartbreaking that in, you know, in the UK in the twenty first century, women are still facing that kind of experience. and I think, you know, and I talk about and I really Um, but we speak to women all the time at the charity around termination and thoughts of termination. And I'm not sure if you're aware of the research around it, but around fifty percent of women consider termination when they're having a hyperemesis pregnancy. And it makes so much sense, Because it's so brutal. Yeah. And it's not just. I feel really awful. For a few days. I've got food poisoning, and I can't stop vomiting for five Even that's extreme. This is months and months and you who you are is gone. Yeah. So difficult. And I think that what you've incredible because, you know, Yeah, they know that their auntie had hyperemesis or their mum had it or their grandma had it. And and we all worry about our I have two girls. You've got girls. What happens next? But that intergenerational piece And is there much research into Because I know you mentioned Um, this is it's only anecdotal. I think there is a little bit I it was no, it was when I was had a little bit of hyperemesis, as it was with my first there was a bit of research, and hyperemesis, and I have to It was in a proper journal, peer But from anecdotal evidence, I have been anxious with me she was still being sick. And when they gave her diazepam or something similar, the sickness stopped. And I just feel really strongly psychosomatic, I'm not saying psychosomatic, from my view, is, Obviously, we know hyperemesis. You are being sick, you do feel sick, but I believe that there is a really strong anxiety component there. And, yeah, that that's and I, I would like to do more research into it. The reason why I haven't gone support research is because it's Even after all these years, it's So really what I did is I went away and I've really explored, individuals. My, my specialism is working with individuals who identify as highly sensitive. So those individuals who are stressed, their nervous systems They might also fit under the particularly in females. I'm really interested in it. my daughter shows some signs of We haven't got a diagnosed or shows those signs and I think I spectrum as well. Again, I haven't been diagnosed, but I'm just really interested in how the sensory, those individuals who have sensory sensitivities are more likely to develop hyperemesis. and you know, how we can help being a highly sensitive person, You know, we're creative, we are We've got all of these lovely We're kind, we're empathetic. But actually life is really highly sensitive person, and our and we have to have a lot of the overwhelm at bay, basically. So that's been my kind of my women and children who identify That's really interesting as well, because that that description of highly sensitive sort of falls into the neurodivergent kind of space, doesn't it? Absolutely. An alternative kind of And you're right, there is terms of autism, ADHD, etc., but a sensory experience, isn't it? Yes. For those people who already have those sensory sensitivities, it can feel completely overwhelming. Yes. And not only the kind of sensory You know, sensitivity to lights, screens, sounds being that kind of thing, but also like interoception where we have things like nausea in our body. Absolutely. And what that does to us, and sensitive nervous system, you then we would be in that state time whilst we're whilst we're our bodies, our brain's going, This is completely unreasonable and it's obviously very dangerous. And there's probably saber tooth Yes, yes. And that's really hard. So I think it's it's kind of a tricky, thing to unpick isn't it. But I think hyperemesis for so all in your head. You can't cope, you know? Yeah. Maybe you're not cut out to be a And all of the other hideous quotes that we hear all the time. Yes. So working out, like, obviously will inevitably cause mental depression, all of those things. And then trying to work out well, how much of that are we predisposed to? Yes, because we have these Yes. And, you know, I wonder if out in your, you know, in your based, but whether there's any that you've kind of discovered. I think it's a really tricky one like one of my specialisms is stress impacts disease in any And that is how stress, and like cancer and things. But you have to be so careful because, with that kind of term psychosomatic. Because it was for me. Oh, it's all in your head. And the light side of that is, I anxiety being a precursor to it. But the dark side of that or the, um, the bias side of that is actually it's not all in our heads. It's the body. And the mind can't be separated, And it's a bit of both. And it's a little bit of I've got a very sensitive nervous system. Therefore when I feel sick, it makes me anxious, like you were saying, but also that anxiety, I believe, from epigenetics and, um, all of the studies that I've read on highly sensitive children and, where that comes from is actually there is a genetic component to it, and the anxiety might be a precursor to it. but again, I've kind of looked at it in terms of other, ironically in, in terms of other things and other illnesses and things, because it's just so raw for me with and it's so difficult to kind of go into that context, research context of, oh gosh, if I wasn't anxious, then I wouldn't have got hyperemesis. And actually, I don't believe I think my nervous system was actually, you know, being highly know, in that neurodiverse survival response because we're environment isn't quite right. And actually, there is a part of stressful at the time, and I hyperemesis may have been a out of my job. That was really stressful to a things aren't right. Actually, you know, I'm going to have to stay off work so that so that you have to slow down. Because I think that the life I was living wasn't working either. And so whilst hyperemesis was massive favour because I didn't leading before that. If for any of this makes sense, things that happen to us, I do mechanism in them. And they we often they change the trajectory of our life, basically. And it sounds like hyperemesis has done that in a huge way for you. Yes. Which you've been able to pull positives out of that, which is incredible. but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's incredibly traumatic experience. Right? And you said like ten years on, It's still there's there are And and I think that's also a part that people, society at large healthcare professionals don't appreciate. and I wonder if, if with your kind of understanding of, you know, psychology, etc., whether you can speak to that kind of trauma and what that what that leaves people with after an experience like hyperemesis, which goes on for so long, it's not like soldiers in the war who, you know, are surrounded by very scary things all of the time. This is a very different there's anything, any light you terms of what that the impact I think it can impact certain I mean, certain, you know, in terms of risk and resilience, some women have natural are more resilient afterwards. And when I say more resilient, I I mean they've got better support networks during the hyperemesis and after the hyperemesis. So resilience for me is about of innate factors. Um, but I think for the most had it, there is an element of post-traumatic stress disorder, including myself, that just did Afterwards, I thought in my head children, I'd wanted a busy not having another child. And it took me five years to And actually that was only Which kind of links into the about women's health issues. I developed endometriosis, which self-diagnose because any kind not taken seriously. And even the GP joked with me which I had. but then when they told me that I couldn't have any more children, then I was like, right, well, you're not telling me that I'm going to have another child. And I had a bit of the sickness, but I don't I wouldn't call it hyperemesis. In my second pregnancy, it was first time around. But if I hadn't have developed that endometriosis, I don't think I would have had another child. And I think that is a symptom of that would have changed my life it's the ultimate avoidance Absolutely. You can't face this, this big And actually, you know, research us that one in five women with diagnosis of PTSD. Wow. So it's it's huge. Again, under-researched not only thing, but it's women's health. We know how how underrepresented But we, you know, it would be so valuable to have that UK based information. But I also think it wouldn't necessarily give us that data because I don't think women are being clinically diagnosed with it. They show the traits for sure. I would say the majority of hyperemesis have definitely got They avoid, whether it's another hospitals, appointments, that They have hypervigilance, and So I would say they have whether or not, it's definitely there. So, you know, it's interesting those dots as well because it's It's yeah. And it totally is. And I it's just brought back a my first daughter, I developed was about two weeks old. And it was a sickness bug. It definitely wasn't a hyperemesis, Premises, but I had a panic attack because it just the flat. The thought of going through I had a panic attack and everyone was just and it sounds awful, but even family were saying, you got to pull yourself together, you've got to get a grip now. She's here now, and it's just And I think going back to the the hyperemesis it taps into, because I felt so lonely. It was fear of the future be here anymore, and I didn't daughter to be here, but I the way I was. So there was huge amounts of The guilt, the lack of trust in myself because it was a planned pregnancy and everyone was saying to me, oh, was it an accident? You know, was it one of those pregnancies you didn't really want? And that was just horrendous in So I think that, and the just it was just horrendous. But I will say the pregnancy One of my friends told me about them and I had a lovely mentor called Sarah, and I didn't actually take her up on the support that she had to offer me because I was just struggling so much. I couldn't even pick up the and she would send me text you know, text me when I had my And that was just so lovely just So yeah, it makes such a Having somebody that, that you really feel like really understands that you don't have to say, I really can't do this anymore. Yeah. And I do really want this baby. But but but they don't they're And I think our peer support network is amazing for providing that. And you know our helpline is is You can phone and speak to they've been there. Not exactly the same place, but looks very similar. They've been in that dark place And I think that's so like you from experiences with the rest family, even just don't. They just don't understand. And there's so much power in speaking to other people who've had hyperemesis. and, and having that, just having that little lifeline of, you know, I might not be able to pick up the phone, but I know they're going to check in on me and just make sure that I'm okay. And I can just text back with, like, nothing or a little love heart or something, and, you know. Absolutely. And that was, that was really even though I ended up psychiatrist during my no therapy on the NHS. I wasn't offered anything. So I went to a private therapist, who wasn't ethical and, you know, told me to get a grip and basically, you know, told she. I remember her telling me I was a mess, that I needed to get a grip. I'm not saying all therapists are like that because I'm one myself now, but I just think the lack of understanding was just shocking from even from professionals who are trained in that space. and that's what really gave me therapy, um, to kind of my didn't want other people to therapy that I experienced. that's so shocking. But you're so right about the support with hyperemesis. And, you know, you've said that terrible experience, actually. And I shudder at the thought of And yet we hear it quite And that's why we've now we've got our, HD specialist counselling service, which is amazing. You know, it's it's talk It's only six sessions. But the difference you can make to a woman, to just hear them and hold that space for them is incredible. Without the background noise of, you because it's not that bad And yeah, all of those things might be saying, but I wonder you feel would have really what you feel like now could be women with hyperemesis in terms Mhm. I think it's what you guys offer You know even six sessions would have massively helped me just having that experience validated. Um there's a quote and it's oh minute, but it's about how No shame dissolves in safe And that really encapsulates how felt so much shame for wanting grateful that I could have a of women who were, you know, treatment and would love to be You know, I to go to somewhere shame actually would have been And I think successions would just to kind of understand and also, there needs to be more research on how hormones impact our mental health as well because we see in women's health. Going off on a slight tangent the menopause for women who are I say sensitive, I mean have a so biologically more sensitive. Those changing hormones really And I think there needs to be menopause, perimenopause and years ago I was going through a I was kind of in perimenopause, similar feelings that I had when And I thought, gosh, this is a So I think there needs to be I women's health is getting long way to go. Yeah, absolutely. And that that research is so Because without that backing of evidence and data and real factual information, It's so difficult to advocate for better care for what we we know is going to help, because so many times we couch terms with anecdotally, we hear that this helps. But there's, you know, there's a lack of of actual tangible research. And I think you're right about There's so much more being moment, isn't there? And there's links with ADHD and higher rates of PMDD and, you know, more challenges at perimenopause and all those things and, and yes, in pregnancy too. So there is a lot we need to But it's so interesting to hear talk about the kind of mental had and that we hear so many And yet in theory it's quite Mhm. To support that it's not easy It is just providing a safe trained to hold that space and background in understanding and isolating that can be. And that's obviously that's what But it's it's not rocket So it could be out there and hopefully our we're hoping to train up more counsellors to be HD friendly. So hopefully that will help too. But you know, maybe there's a something that is offered in services, because it's not hard. Absolutely. And I had an experience, a really interesting experience about a couple of months ago where I was working as a locum educational psychologist with a lovely family. And, the mum cried after our gather evidence for the But she talked to me. She must have sensed that I She talked to me about her hyperemesis when she was pregnant with her son, and I was able just to hold space for her, and she cried and she said, it's the first time anyone's ever validated that experience for her. And even though I'd gone there mission to collect the evidence Actually, I feel in that moment I'd really helped her just by doing that. And I don't think and agree with that we absolutely need more have to be a therapist. Just someone who can listen and share that experience I think is so vital. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's hope that things kind of the holistic. And by that I mean that all all clinical symptoms of experience for the woman that's around them, their children and Because it's huge, isn't it? Absolutely amazing. Katie, thank you so much for being here today and talking to us. It's been so interesting talking Thank you. Lindsey, it's been a pleasure And, um, yeah, I just think the So thank you, thank you, thank